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MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

Not true. Or very incomplete, at least. By the newest reports the market is 49% mobile, 28% console and 23% PC, but that's by revenue, not player counts.

See, if you wanted to torture stats to shoo me away, you should have gone by the market share of GOG, which is quite small. Technically by the numbers they'd be smarter to prioritize getting Roblox and Fortnite working first.

MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

Fiddling with things and actually using things are entirely independent hobbies.

As any midde age nerd who briefly got into restoring retro gaming hardware will tell you. Not that I would know anything about that.

MudMan, (edited ) do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

Yeah, there are a bunch of alternatives. I don't even think it's as much of a problem on Desktop Linux, where having Steam and Heroic/Lutris going at the same time isn't a big deal.

But all the hoops to integrate other launchers inside Steam Game Mode and the friction in trying to use them reliably in that environment are just not mainstream viable or functional. As long as that works the way it currently does I'll default my handleds to autobooting into Windows Big Picture instead.

Which, by the way, is totally a thing you can do. People always act like there's a much bigger gap than there actually is between those two options. You mostly only lose the well integrated display and power controls, which may be a bigger or smaller deal depending on what your Windows handheld uses instead.

MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

It's 100% true of all Windows handhelds released after the OG Steam Deck, yes. This is not because the Deck is bad, it's because they all are running the same two or three APUs, all built on the same AMD architecture. If it came after the Deck, it's a 6800U with a 780M or slightly better than that, and no new handhelds going forward will launch with anything significantly worse than that.

So beyond retroactive support for first-gen AyaNeo or GPD handhelds that are older than the Deck, I don't think this is a major concern. And if you're on one of those, which were incredibly expensive at launch compared to the Deck, I think you should be pretty well used to underwhelming performance by the time SteamOS verifies them, if ever.

It's really not a realistic scenario. Our floor for performance is well established and this is coming so far down the line that we shouldn't expect to return to it at this point.

MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

"Gamers are used to fiddling"?

No. Gamers are largely playing on Switch. And PS5, sometimes.

The residual amount of people playing on PC are annoyed by fiddling, with very rare exceptions.

Hell, I fiddle. I've been known to fiddle in my day. And I'm here complaining about the fiddling. I'm a representative of extreme tolerance to fiddling and I'm annoyed.

MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

This is cool, more options are better.

It does, however, make me REALLY want Valve to add official third party library support. I have thousands of games on GOG and hundreds on Epic. I don't need them to officially support all of them, but at least I need a better approach to integrating them than fiddling with Heroic or Lutris in desktop mode.

MudMan, do games w 'Powered bv SteamOS' gaming handheld validation leaks in Valve documentation, Asus ROG Ally may be among first handhelds with official SteamOS support

I don't think that's feasible. The current set of handhelds have the OG Deck at the bottom end of the performance tier anyway, that'll only become relevant if and when a Deck 2 releases, and at that point it will be the same problem to solve with or without third party hardware.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Free to play games do take your money, though. Especially Destiny 2, which is a free to play game that happens to cost about sixty bucks a year. And Rust did offer a refund to users, but not because Valve made them do it (my understanding is they had to actually negotiate with Valve how that would even work). They issued a refund because they announced a native Linux client and then backed out of that promise.

So yeah, no, I don't see what reasonable expectation for refunds there is, I don't see Valve having ever mentioned that Steam Deck compatibility being rolled back or removed would be grounds for a refund (at least outside their time limited no-cause refund policy) or that the reaction to compatibility changes with Proton or Linux would be any different across Epic, GOG or Valve at this point. Things may change if the Deck platform gets a lot bigger in the future and Valve decide to push for it as a closed environment, but that's not where we are.

To your question, the other big game that comes to mind having done the same thing as Apex would be GTA V, which to my knowledge is still listed as "Unsupported" due to adding anticheat, despite initially working on Deck. And I guess you could count the FIFA franchise if you see it as a single game, because I think there was at least one of them supported on Deck before they rolled out Anticheat and all the newer ones have not been supported.

So it's definitely not a one-off thing, and there has been no action from Valve.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Well, they refused to offer refunds for a long time after people like EA and GOG had already implemented it, and only relented when forced by regulators. And they screwed up their Green Light process for a long time despite every developer telling them it sucked. There's the ongoing use of loot boxes and monetized UGC, of course. Your tolerance for that one may vary.

I think Valve makes very good software and good hardware, and they have a way better handle on where they can squeeze users versus side with them than pretty much anybody else in the industry.

But, you know, they're a corpo ran by a reclusive techbro, they're still frequently sketchy.

Which is also very much true of GOG and CD Projekt, for the record.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Yeah, but that's not a reasonable expectation, is it? Because it's happened multiple times and nobody got anything refunded.

So there is no meaningful incentive and no reasonable expectation, demonstrably.

And, for the record, the Apex Legends guys at least didn't say they couldn't support Linux or the Deck. They used to, in fact. They actively pulled support because they said they saw disproportionately more cheating under those platforms. I have no idea if that's true, but it's certainly what they said. It sure doesn't sound like that'll change anytime soon, unless Windows enacts the same restrictions on Kernel-level access or Linux develops some equivalent.

I'd say that's probably a distant priority over, I don't know, getting decent Nvidia support, but knowing the way Linux progresses that may absolutely not be true.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

You can go that way. I'd rather have a front-end to manage it, but having the option means you can do it manually, rely on Galaxy or use a third party front-end pretty interchangeably.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Who wants Steam gone? You can't have competition without competitors.

I want Steam to exist. And Epic. And definitely GOG. Wouldn't mind at all if GOG was the leader of that pack, or at least if Steam implemented similar policies to theirs.

What I don't want is Steam dominating 80% of the market and making it impossible to make PC games without giving them 30% of everything you make. That's bad.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Yeah, and they were all failing at it.

Until Steam.

We actually used to be a bit generally mad about it. Plenty of big declarations about skipping Half-Life 2, when that used mandatory Steam authentication for the first time. A bit of a feeding frenzy to crack it in retaliation, too.

Being old makes it harder to get super mad about this.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

All else being equal, yes, I prefer games being platform agnostic.

If I have to choose, though, I only care about them being available on PC in the first place (and on GOG, DRM-free, if at all possible). And I certainly, certainly, am nowhere near getting mad at them signing a deal to get money from Epic in exchange for exclusivity. Go hussle, game devs. Do what you gotta do to get by. If anything, it sucks how much less commerically viable doing that seems to be than just launching on Steam alone, going by the performance of recent Ubisoft releases.

MudMan, do games w I hate when a PC game is ONLY available on Epic Games store

Yeah. Because Steam has DRM. Steam IS DRM. That's the problem it originally solved, back when Amazon was still a bookstore.

So screw Steam and other overprotective corporations, I want my PC games DRM-free, since physical copies aren't an option (which is my console solution, thank you very much). They can come meet my requirements or I will continue to prioritize GOG where I can and be annoyed at the lack of a GOG release otherwise. I don't want GOG to give up on the DRM requirement, I want them to get so popular that publishers have to comply with it whether they like it or not.

So from that perspective, if Epic and Steam want to have a pissing contest, I'm in full "let them fight" mode. Who cares.

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