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MudMan, do gaming w Are we going through another scalping apocalypse?

That is a rather astonishing mix of really granular quoting of more or less accurate facts and borderline conspiracy theorist level misinformation. You rarely see this stuff outside political channels, I'm... mildly impressed.

AMD absolutely does have stock in back rooms, largely because they have been doing a somewhat undignified dance of waiting to see what Nvidia does to decide what they're pricing their current gen at. Most educated guesses out there are that they were going to price higher, were caught on the wrong foot with Nvidia's MSRP announcement and had to work out how to re-price cards that were already in the retail channel. And now Nvidia is in turn delaying the 5070 to interfere with AMD's new dates. Because both of these companies suck.

On the plus side for consumers, there's some hope that the 9070 will be repriced somewhat affordably and that it won't underperform against at least the 5070, if not the 5070Ti. We'll see what reviews have to say about it.

Your summary of why the launch was so light includes some real stuff (yeah, partners struggle to match Nvidia's aggressive pricing and have terrible margins), but that's not why there was no stock of the 5090 (most reports suggest the GPUs were simply not being manufactured early enough to provide chips to anybody. 5080s were both more readily available and less appealing, so they're easier to find, which kinda pokes big holes in that hypothesis. Manufacturing timelines seem to also explain why restocking will be slow.

I'm also very confused about why you'd "turn off DLSS". Are you allowing people to use FSR, at least? That's a weird proviso. The reason they would misrepresent the impact of MFG is obviously good old marketing. Even if AMD didn't exist, the 40 series does and they have a big issue with justifying a lot of the 50 series line against it. With the 5080 falling well behind the 4090 they have a clear incentive for suggesting you can match the 4090 in cheaper cards. This doesn't tell you anything about the performance of the 9070 one way or the other. It does tell you a lot of the performance of the 5080, though.

See, this is why this sort of propagandistic speech works so well, it takes for ever to even cover all the misrepresentations and all this is going to do is get you to double down on some of these unsubstantiated statements and turn it into a "matter of opinion". It doesn't even need to be on purpose, it's just easier to produce than to counter.

Aaaand now I made myself sad.

In any case, here's hoping the 9070 is a competitive option and readily available. They've apparently scheduled that delayed event for the 28th, so I'll be curious to see what they bring to the table officially.

MudMan, do gaming w Are we going through another scalping apocalypse?

Oh, they're absolutely not retaking a huge chunk of the dedicated GPU market. I think what's realistic to expect if they have a good launch (readily available stock, competitive performance and price) is that they may regain a couple points of desktop install base and at least get to sell that they're moving in the right direction instead of abandoning that space altogether. Maybe some growth on handhelds and competitive iGPUs for laptops and tablets so it makes sense for them to continue to develop the gaming GPU business aggressively at least.

MudMan, do gaming w Are we going through another scalping apocalypse?

With the 5070 at a 550 MSRP I wouldn't be suprised to see AMD matching that for similar performance. Given all the delay shenanigans it'd be shocking for them to deliberately wait for the 5070 info and then launch with a more expensive part.

How much you end up having to pay to get one is anybody's guess, of course, as MSRP is increasingly meaningless. Since they've had cards with retailers for a while and have been delaying there may actually be some stock at launch, though. We'll see.

The idea that it would "smoke the 5070" and "nearly match the 5080" is probably just fanboyism or they wouldn't have ducked out from directly pitching it after the 5070 reveal (and if they had a 500 dollar 5080 competitor they wouldn't be cancelling their high end cards this gen).

In any case, it's immensely dumb to fanboy for multibillion dollar chip manufacturers. I just hope people can buy good, affordable GPUs from multiple manufacturers at some point. I own GPUs from Intel, AMD and Nvidia and would really want them all to remain competitive in as many pricing segments as possible.

MudMan, (edited ) do gaming w Are we going through another scalping apocalypse?

There are a couple of different things here. The 50 series launch was a bit of a paper launch, especially for the 5090. Scalping obviously happened, but the issue seems to have been very few cards being available, not as much high demand.

A different question is what the things that are available are worth and how they're selling. It's not impossible to find popular parts, but finding popular parts at MSRP is hard, with crazy markups changing day-to-day. I bought a CPU last year at MSRP and despite being a last-gen part that has since received a direct replacement, today it's 100 bucks more expensive from the same retailer.

MudMan, do gaming w Those were the days...

Yeah, the modern experience of retro games is super different in all sorts of ways.

All of that is 100% true. Conversely, a lot of stuff I was fine with in games at the time now seems unbearable. Old games that were great in context now aren't and games that nobody knew existed now hold up great and have become cult classics.

Which is why preservation isn't just about making the games playable, you also need some sort of record of how they were perceived at the time and why.

I'm overthinking some random meme about old game nostalgia, as usual, but none of this is wrong.

MudMan, (edited ) do gaming w Those were the days...

Yeah, man, I still have games with gamebreaking bugs. Those were the days, when every other Spectrum game you got was not actually completable but they just cranked up the difficulty so nobody could beat level one and wouldn't notice.

Nah, just kidding, I loved buying Street Fighter 2 three times at full price to get all the characters and rebalances. We all loved it. I mean, you barely ever needed to buy more than three expansions to get the full game, not everything was like The Sims. My full physical copy of Diablo 2 fits perfectly inside its board game-sized box.

But seriously, though, do buy DRM-free copies of games whenever you can. GOG could use a pick-me-up to prove that it's a viable model, patches or no patches.

MudMan, do games w Steam now warns about Early Access that have not been updated in months.

I think most of the games that would be in this position aren't willing or able to do that. It's not like there's a ton of income on stale half-released games with no active development, but people should be aware that's what they're looking at anyway.

MudMan, do games w Steam now warns about Early Access that have not been updated in months.

Oh, that was very much needed, for sure.

MudMan, do games w Multiversus ends updates, will close servers on May 30 (but will remain playable in Singleplayer)

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say there at the bottom. I think that's a better fit if you assign it by mode, especially in fighting games, where the ranked/unranked/lobby difference is well established, but at least it should be in the back pocket for a F2P fighting game to avoid this scenario.

MudMan, (edited ) do games w Multiversus ends updates, will close servers on May 30 (but will remain playable in Singleplayer)

It wouldn't be, necessarily. A bunch of games (survival games, in particular) still give you that choice. It's cheap, reliable and doesn't need a ton of people playing your game.

The problem is then you can't do matchmaking, you need a server browser, which is a lot clunkier. And it does get harder to avoid cheating and so on. The experience is also dependent on how close the server is from you, and if it's just some guy's computer the server goes away when they're not playing.

For fighting games specifically, where "room matches" are still a thing in most games, I do see it becoming an option as a separate mode. And man, if you're doing something like Multiversus I do think you should consider having it ready to go as a fallback, because this is a bad look and hurts future games that may want to give this a shot.

MudMan, do games w Multiversus ends updates, will close servers on May 30 (but will remain playable in Singleplayer)

Well, that's the problem of GaaS. It used to be games cost however much to make and you were recouping expenses after. These days games cost money to run, on account of all the centralized backend and dedicated server cost to keep everything locked down and enable matchmaking and microtransactions.

The bizarre thing is this zombie state where pieces of the game work, but only if you bought stuff ahead of time. The idea of F2P fighting games makes some sense on the surface, but with the way audiences work in the genre it may not be feasible because... who the hell is going to buy into a fighting game that poofs into the ether the moment someone else gets a Mai Shiranui DLC again?

Looking at you, 2XKO. I played Rising Thunder. I remember.

MudMan, do games w GTA VI Might Inspire Other AAA Developers to Price Their Games at $100

I do think fighting games are a special case because the DLC is so obvious that the seasonal microtransaction stuff is not as much of a focus.

But hey, SF6 did add a battlepass, so... it's moving in that direction. We'll see.

MudMan, do games w GTA VI Might Inspire Other AAA Developers to Price Their Games at $100

Sure.

And the natural conclusion of that is why have the up front charge at all. You do the 2XKO thing or the Multiversus thing and just let people play and charge for the characters. Of course that may mean being online for purchase authentication, right?

I don't like where that goes.

I think SF in particular is pretty sure it can pull a decent chunk of cash up front and not impact sales too much, so that's better for them, since they're monetizing all the casual players, but sitll. It's a dynamic that's in play and I don't like it.

MudMan, do games w GTA VI Might Inspire Other AAA Developers to Price Their Games at $100

You already spend more than 100 for Street Fighter and always have. The full roster for SF6 is currently 100/110 bucks. Not counting MTX and extra cosmetics.

Sure, you didn't pay it all at once, but that's no different than me buying SF2 and then Super SF2 the following year, each for seventy-ish bucks.

MudMan, do games w GTA VI Might Inspire Other AAA Developers to Price Their Games at $100

Sorta kinda. We moved to 69.99 for major releases a while ago. Late 2000s in some territories, later in others.

In the US it was 59.99 for the CD era, but it was higher before when cart costs were a massive chunk of the retail price. I bought games that launched at 100 (or its local equivalent) in the 90s, particularly on SNES and N64.

But it's true that prices have been super stable while moving from expensive carts to cheap CDs and then trivially expensive digital releases. Now there's no way to cut costs on distribution (you're already subsidizing storage, it's just down to bandwidth, which is paid by the retailer anyway). So now inflation is catching up, since none of the money is going to making boxes, stamping CDs or shipping games in trucks. Now when inflation hits there's no longer a way to hide the pricing impact, so it goes to sticker price.

And people are so used to that stability that they immediately rage on the Internet, if this thread is anything to go by, so the only answer is to hide more of the cost in MTX and dump the sticker price altogether.

Kinda argued against myself there. The real answer isn't prices will "evenutally" go up, it's that they will go down to zero and traditional gaming will become mobile gaming. That's probably more likely.

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